Ryan Allen Gray (00:00):

My coworker, who's from middle of nowhere, Texas, was like, brother, I just feel like I witnessed my first hate crime. And I'm like, this is nothing compared to the things that I've been through. But even him, his feelings were hurt that he had witnessed that. And he was like, I can't believe that you deal with stuff like that. And I'm just like, it is what it is. And I got to go home early because of this crazy person. Said, thank you.

Host (00:26):

Gay in America is an oral history podcast sharing experiences of gay people from all orientations, backgrounds, and ages in America. Our goal is to inspire each other to live our best gay lives and help us all understand that our shared experiences unite us as a community.

Host (00:50):

Our guest on today's podcast grew up in a very small town in North Carolina, but after discovering his musical and acting talents in high school, he escaped to New York where his story starts getting a little crazy. He shares with us about his first gay experience, which was awful. His time living and working in Fire Island, which was great, and some scary moments dealing with hate. Today he's 33 years old and lives in Nashville, Tennessee where he is pushing the boundaries of conventional and traditional ideas. But in Tennessee, that comes with some risk. Let's hear his story.

Ryan Allen Gray (01:32):

Hi, my name is Ryan Allen Gray and I am a queer artist, currently based in Nashville.

Ryan Allen Gray (01:40):

I'm currently working on a solo project that lends itself to queer themes, and it's sort of based on my experiences as a queer person who grew up in the south in the Bible belt, there's a lot of themes about religious trauma and navigating queer relationships and yeah, just the general trauma that comes with navigating being a queer person when you don't see those people in your neighborhood or in school or whatever. So my project is me telling those stories and being vulnerable and honest about what I went through and the dark stuff as well as the hope in the end of it all. And yeah, I'm really proud of it. And it's new. I was in a band for several years, which was a queer performance group in New York City, and it was more like an off Broadway show than a band because we had a crazy cast of characters like Vogue Dancers and a gospel choir and multiple musicians and things like that. And so I was sort of latched onto that up until Covid. And then during Covid, I had Buddha under the tree time to deal with a lot of the traumas that I went through as a child and also moving to New York City at a really young age and pursuing the dream. And I decided that it was time for me to develop my own project about my own story. So here we are now. I'm in Nashville doing that.

Music (03:19):

Oh my god, I'm not a praying man, but if you are listening, I'm praying for them.

Music (03:37):

Whoa. Oh my God.

Music (03:57):

Oh my God.

Ryan Allen Gray (04:00):

I'm definitely doing it in multiple ways, but the main medium I would say is through music

Music (04:12):

The best you could do. I drive away, you face me down so you can press the issue. Keep trying to beg me to stay. I see look in face I can't keep running in.

Ryan Allen Gray (04:37):

I've also gotten really into the visual aspect of that and pairing my music with really interesting artistic, creative, thought out visuals and short and music videos. And I like to do something random that came about when I moved to Nashville. I started getting asked to model a lot, but not your normal, what you think of modeling, like I don't do runway and stuff like that, but I do kind of avant garde, really artsy fartsy, fun kind of highbrow creative shoots. And that's just another outlet for me to come up with this concept and do things that might disrupt the status quo or that people from back home would see the photos and be like, what the hell is he doing?

Host (05:23):

Indeed, when I landed on his Instagram page, the first image I encountered was of a white snake wrapped around his head. So I can see how his North Carolina hometown folk might be a little surprised.

Ryan Allen Gray (05:36):

I would say that I express myself and my stories in many ways, photography and video and music. And I also write for other artists and things like that. But my main focus is my music project.

Host (05:50):

I wondered where this creative spark came from

Ryan Allen Gray (05:53):

Music. It was just second nature to me. I remember when I was five years old, I sang in church for the first time, fully memorized a song, had gone to the Christian bookstore and gotten the soundtrack on cassette and learned it in my room and all of that. So literally from a very young age I was singing and my mom used to take me to all of the old folks' homes around town and I would set up my little karaoke machine and sing Christian music and it just continued to evolve. But it was all through and alongside the church, it was adjacent to the church always. I even got the opportunity, which this was amazing looking back, but also kind of weird looking back, but when I was in middle school, I got to go on tour with this Christian performance group called the Young Continentals.

Ryan Allen Gray (06:49):

I did like a six or seven week tour up the east coast and we were in a bus and it was a bunch of us kids, and we did this show and took it on the road to all these churches and we would stay with people from the church when we were in their cities and stuff like that. And so even though the themes and the messaging are things that I don't necessarily align with anymore, it kind of gave me the itch and the bug. I need to be on the road, I need to be performing, I need to be creating stuff like this. And then that segued into theater. Starting around middle school, I started doing theater and I got very involved in that. And by the end of high school I was doing shows at both of the local high schools and directing them. And I really had a passion for musical theater because that was the first time I started hearing stories other than church stories. Rent was my awakening when I saw that, oh no, I'm having a lot of feelings. I don't know how to place this

Music (07:51):

525,000 600, 520 5,000 moments dear. 525,600.

Ryan Allen Gray (08:05):

So then it was theater and then my mom discouraged me from going to college right away because we couldn't afford it and whatever. But I had this dance teacher in high school who was like, you have to go to school and you have to go to school for music or theater or something, Ryan. It will be the best decision you ever made. And take out the loans, figure it out, you have to go. So I went to East Carolina University for musical theater and professional acting, and I was there for three years, got in a lot of trouble, got a DUI got in some trouble with the police because I left my Southern Bible belt singing at church on the praise team every Sunday in a theater program with a bunch of queer people and people I've never seen before. So I got in a lot of trouble, but I also learned a lot and I'm glad that I did that.

Ryan Allen Gray (09:02):

But it was funny, when I was in school, all of my teachers always said, this theater thing is great, but you're going to do pop music. We know it. We want to make sure that your rep book is full of pop music because when you get to New York, those are the jobs you're going to get. Just we promise that's what's going to happen. And I was like, no, I'm going to be a Broadway star. And they were right. As soon as I got to New York, I immediately joined a band and stopped auditioning. So that's sort of the bullet points. But yeah, since I was five, I have always been making some kind of noise.

Host (09:35):

Why is music so important to him?

Ryan Allen Gray (09:38):

That's a loaded question. I think that at different points in my life, the why has probably been different. Early on the why was just because there's no other option. I will not do sports. I'm not interested in any of these other things. So I just did it because it was second nature. And then once it became sort of more legit and I was getting in more legit spaces and actually learning about the field, I think it became about the learning of it. And I'm a Gemini. My only woo woo that I'll throw in there is that allegedly I'm very curious and love to learn and need to be stimulated and things like that. So I think that that was probably the why for a while. And then I think once I got to New York and started finding success, maybe my ego was why for a while.

Ryan Allen Gray (10:28):

And that got me in a lot of trouble and got me in some not so great situations and conversations and things like that. And I think that now the why is for my younger self and it's for other people that may have had a shared lived experience as me growing up in the south in the Bible belt and not seeing themselves represented in their communities. And we have things like this, like podcasts now and TikTok and social media and all of that. And so even if you're in those small towns, but you're able to find access to someone that is telling your story or someone that looks like you or someone that sounds like you, that can save someone's life. I don't want to get into the whole savior, your complex thing or anything like that. It feeds my soul just as much. I guess the thing that keeps me going and the why is knowing that I want to be this person that I didn't have for other people potentially.

Host (11:33):

Does he feel like he's already had a positive impact on the L-G-B-T-Q community?

Ryan Allen Gray (11:38):

Going back to Shirley House, which was the name of my project in New York that I was a part of, I didn't realize in the moment because it was such a rollercoaster and I was so young, some of the things that we did were just so outside of the box. And it was funny because record labels would come to our show and they'd be like, what are you guys? We're fascinated with this, but we don't know where to place you. Are you a band or are you a performance group? Are you a circus? Are you a show? What is this? And the whole point of Shirley House was that we wanted to be a take on house music certainly and that sort of underground Brooklyn warehouse seventies eighties, back when you weren't allowed to be gay and people were just hiding out, sweating and dancing and then putting on their suit and ties they leave so they don't get caught in their crop top.

Ryan Allen Gray (12:32):

We wanted to honor that and kind of bring back that spirit and also honor sort of underrepresented facets of the gay community. So we had this whole vogue part where we would have Vogue C Ciphers in the middle of the show and we would have Monster and Omari, Ms. Rahi and those guys would come up and just death drop off of the stage off of the monitor into the crowd. And we were really creating this thing where no matter what part of the community you were or you identified with, you saw yourself somewhere on the stage. And that felt very special and it felt very impactful. And in hindsight, looking back, I'm so honored to have been a part of something like that. And for a while there was some really good buzz and just being in New York and people coming and being like, I bring my friends to your show every Friday night because we've never seen anything like this.

Ryan Allen Gray (13:27):

Or people that had never experienced vogue or houses or balls, things like that. People that were like, what is that? That's crazy. How are they doing that? I was learning along the way by being in the rooms with these legends legend, and then our audience members were learning at the shows that felt and feels impactful. And then now I live in Nashville where we're really oversaturated here with country very white themes. It's like I've tried to find the best way to say that. And so living in this town, it's not easy, but I will say that there aren't a ton of people here in this town doing what I'm doing and making the type of music that I make and telling the stories that I'm trying to tell. A huge part of me for the first two years living here was just ready to get out.

Ryan Allen Gray (14:26):

I wanted to go to LA or back to New York or whatever, and I feel like at a certain point I decided, no, I'm going to be the one that books at the fence and forces you to think about music differently and the way to write differently and all of that. So that feels impactful because when I go into a room, I know that you may have never met anyone like me when I come into your studio and then you're like, wait, what is this dude? This is exciting but scary, but you know what I mean. So that feels impactful because I'm sort of pushing the needle on what people in this town know to be conventional or traditional or whatever they think.

Host (15:09):

Okay, so Brian believes his work positively impacts the L-G-B-T-Q community, but it's also expanding the straight community's understanding of conventional and traditional ideas.

Ryan Allen Gray (15:22):

A million percent. And the gay community too. Every town that I travel to has a different type of gay. When you're in Miami, it's different than when you're in New York. It's different than when you're in Boystown. It's different than when you're in Anos. What I found in the south and Nashville specifically is that a lot of these people that identify as gay or bisexual or whatever, there's a lot of internalized homophobia. There's this certain priority for them to appear masculine, and they're still adjacent to this old way of thinking about masculinity and femininity and racism and all those things. And I think because I lived in New York for almost a decade where you don't even have time to think about those things because everyone is doing something completely different off the wall that you're just like, cool. Coming back here was a bit of a culture shock.

Ryan Allen Gray (16:21):

And so I try to also push the needle on that when I'm in spaces with fellow queer people because you're different than us and we don't know where to place that, and we don't know if we like it or not. So I just continue to come into the rooms, Hey, I'm really nice though. You might not get it, but I want to be your friend. That feels impactful as well, whether I'm in a work scenario or I'm out at the club or whatever, I feel like I'm sort of a minority in terms of the way that I think and the way that I dress, the way that I act, the things I talk about, and that feels impactful, I guess.

Host (17:00):

Ryan lives in Tennessee, one of the most L-G-B-T-Q unfriendly states in America, frequent reports of white supremacist rallies, a Republican super majority in the state capitol with what's been called a slate of hate and an ultra conservative population even in the bigger cities like Nashville. Does he feel unsafe putting himself out there like that?

Ryan Allen Gray (17:25):

That's a good question. I try to manage my fear. I don't know. It's not healthy to live in fear. However, I would be lying if I said that. I'm not fearful or worried about that. But as soon as you get about 10 minutes away from Metro Nashville and it's two o'clock in the morning and you're at the seven 11, yeah, 1000000%. 1000000%. And I still bartend because I have to have my survival job. I experienced some pretty crazy stuff at work. For instance, I had a lady one time, this is just one of many stories, but I'll just tell this one really quick. We were talking about dogs or something super simple, and I was like, yeah, my dream is to have these two great Danes and I want to walk down the street with my two great Danes and call them Thelma and Louise.

Ryan Allen Gray (18:19):

And she was talking about her love of dogs. I was talking about mine, and she was like, well, you're going to get all the ladies when you walk down the street with those dogs. And because I am who I am and cannot just ignore that, I was like, I don't like ladies. I was very kind about it, but I definitely called her out. I corrected her, and you would've thought that I had smacked her face went white, and she was just so taken aback. Obviously I can psychoanalyze this person and realize that she's embarrassed and she doesn't know where to place this or whatever. But it was just interesting watching her implode. It kind of fizzled, and there was a little bit of back and forth, but then she dropped it and I was like, great. So then the next day she got really drunk on Broadway and she came in with her husband and she made a comment to someone across the bar.

Ryan Allen Gray (19:13):

She was like, well, I was trying to flirt with that bartender over there, but he yelled at me and told me that he was gay and that he doesn't like girls and all this stuff. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I walked over there, I was like, wait, what's going on? And she was like, you're an asshole. And I was like, wait, so now I've done something wrong. So it really got out of hand. This woman was blackout and we had to ask this woman to leave, and she was evicted from the hotel. Luckily, my staff at work had my back and kept me safe in that moment or whatever, but my coworker, who's from middle of nowhere, Texas, was like, brother, I just feel like I witnessed my first hate crime. And I'm like, this is nothing compared to the things that I've been through.

Ryan Allen Gray (19:59):

But even him, his feelings were hurt that he had witnessed that. And he was like, I can't believe that you deal with stuff like that. And I'm just like, it is what it is, and I got to go home early because of this crazy person. So thank you. Little things like that, microaggressions like that, where I think if I didn't have all the experiences that I have, I probably would've just cowered and put my tail in between my legs and allowed that person to speak to me, however, and I didn't and I'm not going to. And that made her uncomfortable to the point where she got kicked out of the hotel. In my mind, I'm always thinking, what if her husband had a gun in his car? Obviously I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it because that's not healthy, but I would be lying if I said that. Little things like that don't make me watch my back.

Host (20:48):

He grew up in a very small town in North Carolina,

Ryan Allen Gray (20:52):

Nashville, North Carolina actually. But we say Rocky Mount because that's the town that everybody knows.

Host (20:59):

So when did he first realize he was gay?

Ryan Allen Gray (21:01):

That's a really funny question because I don't remember this, but my mom said around four or five, we were in the car one day and I said something along the lines of, I know I'm supposed to girls, but I don't like boys. And my mom was like, okay, we'll pray about it. And I don't remember that conversation. She told me probably when I was 20 or 21 that we had had that conversation. So I would say technically I came out to my mom at four or five after preschool or kindergarten or whatever grade I was in at that point. But yeah, I never really came out. I think that most people knew that I was gay before I knew. And I remember in middle school people calling me gay and stuff like that. And I remember having this kind of existential crisis at some point, and I was like, wait, am I gay?

Ryan Allen Gray (21:53):

What does that mean? People are calling me that I don't get that. I don't understand it. And then also I'm in church. So no, you just kind of shove that away, those feelings away. And then one instance, I remember in high school I was having a lot of panic attacks and really struggling with my mental health, and my mom came into my room at one point and was just kind of like, is this about the gay thing? Because I know about that. And I was like, no, but yes, kind of not. Like what? So there was that kind of moment where even though that probably wasn't the greatest way to have that conversation, it did cause a bit of relief, at least in that moment. I knew my mom was honoring that. She knew that about me. And then after that, when I went to college and stuff, I just started dating guys. I never felt the need to call everyone and make this declaration. People just knew or they didn't and then they found out or they didn't. I don't think that it's my responsibility to tell everyone what I do in my bedroom.

Host (22:57):

Ryan May have had a relatively easy coming out, but his first gay experience, well,

Ryan Allen Gray (23:04):

It's kind of a traumatic story. My best friend in high school was gay, and he was also kind of closeted, and I don't know if he and I had talked about it or if he had maybe, I don't know, maybe there was just sexual tension or something. But my mom had gone out of town and I had a sleepover and invited him, and one thing led to the other and we had a sexual experience and it was awful. It was so scary. I just felt so sick. And I also had all of this guilt because of the church stuff, and it was a nightmare. And I remember after it was over, I went and took the coldest shower and just cried and really was not well. Then after that, that day after, I was like, I'm not gay, because that was not fun. That was not fun. I feel horrible. I don't want to do that anymore. When I went to college, I started experimenting with my sexuality, and that's when I was like, no, no, no, I'm definitely gay.

Host (24:12):

Thankfully, his best gay experiences were still ahead of him.

Ryan Allen Gray (24:16):

It would be the two summers that I worked and lived on. Fire Island

Speaker 5 (24:21):

This week is sacred.

Speaker 6 (24:23):

We're going to Fire Island,

Ryan Allen Gray (24:24):

And this is why straight people hate us. I bartended out there. We lived there. We worked six days a week, and I got in a lot of trouble, and I did a lot of really stupid stuff out there. However, it was the first time that I ever went somewhere where everyone around me, like 95% of the people were queer. I got to see different types of queer people, rich queer people, queer people with kids, trans people, all of the different facets of the community, the bears, the leather. I got to see all of that, and those were only things that I had maybe seen online before. I saw it in person. That was an awakening. And one of the first nights that I was there, I ended up at some hotel and they were like, you should come get in the hot tub. Everybody's going to be hanging out.

Ryan Allen Gray (25:15):

And when I got to the hot tub, everyone was naked. I could never get naked in front of the strangers. And the next thing they're forcing me to kind of playfully, they're like, go on, take everybody's naked, whatever. And I did. And again, existential crisis that night, I was like, I've never felt so free and safe and grounded in this kind of way. And it was like my brain can't compute. And the people that I worked with, they'd spent multiple summers out there. So they're like, oh, here comes Ryan with his sweet tea. He don't even know what he is got coming. Like I said, I got in a lot of trouble out there. I did a lot of really stupid stuff, but I think overall that was life-changing for me to be in sort of a full-time scenario with only queer people or allies,

Host (26:07):

But life wouldn't be quite so free everywhere.

Ryan Allen Gray (26:10):

My parents live in a very, very small town, and my grandmother and I went to lunch at this diner. There was this group of construction workers sitting at the table next to us, and I was just living my life having lunch with my grandmother, and the next thing I hear is sort of this cat calling thing started, and then the whole like, oh, I bet he could take this ketchup, bottle up his butt, stuff like that. It just really got out of hand. My grandma didn't really pick up on what was going on fully, but I felt very unsafe and I felt like in this moment, I have to get out of here because this could potentially evolve into a safety situation, and I have my grandma with me and I could probably hold my own, but she cannot be witnessing this or be involved in this.

Ryan Allen Gray (27:00):

So I immediately got the check. I was like, we have to leave. There's an emergency. And my grandma was like, what? I got her out of there and everything. But to add insult to injury afterwards when I was talking to some family about it and stuff, their response was like, well, what were you wearing? In my mind, I'm like, well, first of all, screw you. That is the thing that you would say to me, but also why does it matter for your information? I wasn't wearing anything crazy. I didn't have my BOA on that day or my heels. I was wearing a T-shirt and jeans still. That's not the point. The point is that these people deemed me less than for whatever reason and threaten my safety potentially. So I will not be going out in this town anymore in situations like that because I don't feel safe. It sucks to not feel safe to be out in public in the town that your family lives in

Host (27:56):

Despite negative experiences like this. I wondered what he likes most about being gay.

Ryan Allen Gray (28:03):

I don't know. I think that I've always been a bit of a disruptor and someone that enjoys challenging the status quo and stuff like that. So I love that I live a life with my partner, my family, and I've sort of transcended what my family would deem as traditional and conventional or whatever, conservative, whatever. And I like that I have this beautiful space and I'm being successful in my career and I'm doing all of the things that I always wanted to despite God or what me going to hell from their point of view or whatever. Yeah, I like that. I like the ultimate freedom of it, and I like that I make the rules about my life and how I navigate it and my relationships and things like that. If you don't approve of that, it has nothing to do with me. I like making people think, I like people, assuming that I'm not gay, and then finding out that I am and then having a meltdown. I like that because that forces them to think about that We look like your brother and your son and your dad. We're out here. So yeah, I like the freedom of it. I don't feel trapped anymore. I don't feel like I have to prove anything. I am who I am. I'm grounded in that, and whatever anyone's opinion is of that is theirs. That's it. It's not mine.

Host (29:32):

So what exactly does it mean to be gay in America for Ryan?

Ryan Allen Gray (29:37):

I will say that we've come a long way, and I will say that we should be grateful for that. We should be happy for that and all that. But I will also say we are not out of the woods yet. You may be out of the woods in certain towns in certain spaces and things like that, but there's a lot of people that are not and that are in danger and are unsafe without getting into politics and stuff like that. I think that there's this culture that was sort of idle or quiet or dormant or something that has reared their ugly heads back out and they're making it very clear that we are not welcome and that we are not safe in their towns. Anyone that has made the choice to be open and honest about who they are and their sexuality or their gender identity or any of those things every day that they wake up and do that is an act of protest, and they should be proud and they should never back down. They should never not be 1000000% authentic to who they are no matter what. It's not easy and it's worth it in the end because that's what creates change. That's what pushes us to the next milestone. As a community, we would be silly to think everything's better now and we see more gay people on tv, so we're good. No, that's not the case. We have come a long way, but we have a long way to go.

Host (31:14):

And what does Ryan see for himself in the future?

Ryan Allen Gray (31:19):

I want to create a life in which I have the freedom to create the things that I want to create or that I need to create. There's a lot of shenanigans and travel and shows and trips. I'm very inspired by nature. I want to see all of the natures, if that makes any sense. I want to be in the mountains. I want to be in the desert. I want to be everywhere. I want to see it all, and I want to write in those places and create in those places and take photos in those places, and I want to be happy and healthy and loved and I want to love. So yeah, I think that my future, it looks chaotic and crazy and it looks like a roller coaster, but it also feels grounded and healthy and just, yeah, ultimate bliss. That's the dream.

Host (32:19):

That's what he wants for himself. But what advice does he have for others who are trying to live their best gay lives in America?

Ryan Allen Gray (32:26):

I would say give yourself grace. Check in with your moral compass. And the only reason I say that is because I always knew that I was gay subconsciously, but it felt wrong and it felt like I had to diminish those thoughts or push them under the rug or whatever, because I wasn't ever really checking in with how I felt about it. I was more concerned about how my mom felt about it or how my pastor felt about it or whatever. So I know that it's hard to distinguish all those voices in your head, but figuring out how to just get really grounded with yourself and ask yourself, are these feelings how I feel and should I explore them? I would also say be safe out there because even though we're not in the same HIV crisis that we had at one point, STDs and the culture can lend itself to some unhealthy habits and doing some things that may put us at risk. And so as a young person, I would say be very careful sexually. Go explore and do all the things and learn all about yourself and what you like and don't like, but do it in a way where you're not going to potentially mess up your future.

Ryan Allen Gray (33:53):

Find the voice in your head that's actually yours and trust that. And also just be careful. Go have fun and be safe while doing it.

Host (34:30):

This podcast is produced by me at Open Roads Media, LLC, and features new episodes each month. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share with your friends. We do love hearing from you. Tell us how this podcast has impacted your life. Go to our website where you can record a voice message and we may include it in a future episode of Gay in America. We do need your help to keep this podcast going. Your support helps us inspire more people in our community. Thank you so much for listening to the Gay In America Podcast and keep coming back for more inspiring stories about being gay in America.